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Date:	11/1/99 1:32:59 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, November 1 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1290<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Critical Mass<BR>
Re: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
RE: Paying for health care<BR>
Re: One Day In Peace 2<BR>
Re: Alien Protest Forms (was: [OT] One Day In Peace 2)<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
Re: Where the heck is Scangen?<BR>
Re: Ooh...bugger..<BR>
Re: Critical Mass<BR>
RE: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
OT: D&D<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
Niven Books<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
Re: Humor<BR>
Re: Niven Books<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
Re: Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
Re: Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
Trade War<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass<BR>
<BR>
Of course, if you're inisting on the One True Vehicle, then there's not<BR>
much problem...you're not making that left hand turn most of the time,<BR>
anyway....<BR>
<BR>
obEnglishSportsCars:<BR>
<BR>
Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?<BR>
a: Lucas Refrigerators...<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Phil Kitching wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 12:37 31/10/1999 -0800, Darren Sherbot wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> <BR>
> >...Do you know how hard it is to pass a cyclist in my Ford Explorer<BR>
> >and then make an abrupt right hand turn without hitting the "jerk" with my<BR>
> >side view mirror?<BR>
> <BR>
> I'd have thought that your main risk was that "jerk" denting your door.<BR>
> Surely you have to swing that monstrosity out across three lanes in<BR>
> order to have enough room to roll it round a corner?<BR>
> Besides, if you followed the one true path (ie driving on the left) in the<BR>
> one true vehicle (ie MG sportscar), you wouldn't have *this* problem with<BR>
> turning right.<BR>
> <BR>
> ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Phil Kitching<BR>
> --<BR>
>   http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
>   Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
>  "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:21:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry writes:<BR>
> I ripped off an idea today and I'm looking for feedback:<BR>
> 'The General War' ( a 5FFW variant)<BR>
<BR>
<snip details><BR>
<BR>
In practice, given the time required to shift military forces between fronts in the Imperium, the fact of attacks on multiple fronts wouldn't be relevant for the first couple years of any war; it seems that most wars in the Traveller universe are fairly local conflicts, due to the vast efforts required to move fleets more than a sector or two.  Aside from that, 'everyone gang up on the Empire' isn't too likely a scenario, due to general mutual distaste (and severe difficulties in execution).<BR>
<BR>
However, if the Empire got into a war with a couple of powers and appeared _weak_, everyone else might decide to jump in and start carving out chunks.  For example, if the Fifth Frontier War had gone slightly differently and the Spinward Marches had collapsed, a clever warleader among the Vargr could build on his successes there and spread attacks inward, uniting the Vargr as he goes. The Solomani might react to this situation by deciding it was a good time to retake the Solomani Rim; they might be right.  Eventually, I can see the other powers being drawn in, though I suspect once the spinward marches fell it would mostly be Vargr, K'kree, and Solomani attacking (the Hivers are relatively unlikely to attack, the Aslan and Zhodani are fairly inconveniently located.<BR>
, the Empire would probably be forced to go try to take it back, and the Solimani might decide that it was a good time to take back the Solomani Rim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:23:05 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: Paying for health care<BR>
<BR>
_Now_ you know why we travel with our own doctor...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Eris Reddoch writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >Frankly, I think, a lot of us play the medical system as being<BR>
> >pretty much free as well.  When's the last time you asked a PC<BR>
> >for an insurance card or denied them medical care until they<BR>
> >paid, or showed that they could pay for the care? <g><BR>
> <BR>
> 	That happened the last time that a PC went to a hospital<BR>
> 	for care IMTU.  Gee, Eris, I pictured you as a much<BR>
> 	nastier GM than that  ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> Peez<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:27:47 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: One Day In Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/1/99 7:09:25 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Glenn said:<BR>
 >The K'Kree shoot old ladies in furs.<BR>
 <BR>
 The K'kree would consider that to be a waste of ammunition.<BR>
 <BR>
 They just trample them instead.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, they skewer them on a spear/lance/pike. Puts a whole new meaning to <BR>
"rat on a stick"....:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:36:55 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Protest Forms (was: [OT] One Day In Peace 2)<BR>
<BR>
At 08:43 AM 11/1/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
> > My advice is to find out which of the two stereotypes your players<BR>
> > believe is the way Zhos "really are". Then keep having them run into<BR>
> > incidents that fit the other stereotype. If they change their mind,<BR>
> > change the incident type.<BR>
<BR>
that does work well...<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:39:23 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
<BR>
At 09:35 AM 11/1/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>ObTrav:  See, this is one of the reasons the TML is my favorite list.<BR>
>  Everyone's cool with each other, and even with the flames and the<BR>
>occasionally heated discussions, there is still a lot of mutual<BR>
>respect between its members, or at least the appearance of such.<BR>
>Thanks, All!<BR>
<BR>
That's actually a very good point.  This is by far the most civilized (not <BR>
to mention interesting) public list I've ever been on.  Especially when <BR>
considering that it's an RPG list.  Clearly, Traveller tends to have much <BR>
more mature players than most other systems.....<BR>
<BR>
Keep it up guys.....<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:27:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is Scangen?<BR>
<BR>
David Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Can anyone tell me what hex Scangen is in?  (In the Gvurdon Sector)  I<BR>
have<BR>
> the GDW Alien module and I'm running the Traveller Adventure and I was<BR>
> going to point it out to my players, but if it says exactly where it is,<BR>
I<BR>
> can't find it.<BR>
<BR>
According to my Gal2.4 Gvurrdon data, "Classic Era"(c. 1100):<BR>
<BR>
Scangen       2937 B88557A-C    Ni As              224 Vk<BR>
<BR>
Subsector P-Firgr  and Vk is Commonality of Kedzudh<BR>
<BR>
HTH<BR>
<BR>
\\  // Commander X<BR>
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
T E K  Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //\\  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm<BR>
//  \\ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:39:02 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ooh...bugger..<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:33:54 +0800 "Mick Bailey" <mickb@iinet.net.au> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, it's been a busy year, but it's time to pick up a few dropped<BR>
> projects.  To wit, I've a hankering to sit down and finish of the 'Emperors<BR>
> of the Rule of Man' list that I started a while back.<BR>
> <BR>
> Trouble is, the data hasn't survived countless re-installations of<BR>
> Microsoft's Virus 95/98...if any kind soul can help save me from typing out<BR>
> the written text again, I'd be profoundly grateful.<BR>
<BR>
FYI, I've emailed all the messages I could find to Mick, which should be all of them. However, this presents a great opportunity for me to remind you of the existence of my Library Data web pages, which also include these emperors of the ROM.<BR>
<BR>
Some of you might have missed them (I can only hope) since my ISP tore down the domain that hosted them, and Real World (tm) kept interfering with my posting an update here on the list. Anyway, they're still there, although nothing new has happened to them for a while.<BR>
<BR>
The link:<BR>
<BR>
http://seemann.homepage.dk/library<BR>
<BR>
And, yes, some day when I get the time, the site needs a redesign... :-/<BR>
<BR>
Mark Seemann<BR>
mark@dk-online.dk (home)<BR>
marks@rainier.com (work)<BR>
20985193@note.sonofon.dk (SMS)<BR>
http://seemann.homepage.dk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:46:03 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 01 Nov 1999, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>Of course, if you're inisting on the One True Vehicle, then there's not<BR>
>much problem...you're not making that left hand turn most of the time,<BR>
>anyway....<BR>
><BR>
>obEnglishSportsCars:<BR>
><BR>
>Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?<BR>
>a: Lucas Refrigerators...<BR>
><BR>
One I found in one of those free sheets given away in Borders:<BR>
<BR>
q: Why don't the British make computers?<BR>
a: they haven't found a way of getting one to leak oil<BR>
<BR>
... or something like that<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:08:42 -0600 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]<BR>
> <BR>
> On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If <BR>
> violence in TV and<BR>
> > movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see <BR>
> random acts of<BR>
> > situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
> <BR>
> I see it constantly.  I wish I didn't.  Life would be much easier that<BR>
> way.<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Kenji, can I live in your universe?  It sounds *much* more interesting than<BR>
mine.<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:36:51 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: OT: D&D<BR>
<BR>
> I used to use this method for dealing with drow in my D$D games.<BR>
> <BR>
There aren't any "drow" in D&D, only shadow elves. (As it would matter to anyone else on this list...)<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:53:08 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
<BR>
Juliean Galak wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  Clearly, Traveller tends to have much<BR>
> more mature players than most other systems.....<BR>
<BR>
Who you callen' Mature.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:00:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Niven Books<BR>
<BR>
Hi all.  A little late on this, but I thought I'd note that Niven's latest<BR>
book, "Destiny's Road", takes place in the same universe as "The Integral<BR>
Trees", "The Smoke Ring" and "A World Out of Time".  DR is a pretty good<BR>
book, too!  Not his best, but with Niven that still puts it way ahead of<BR>
most of the crap out there.<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:06:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
I think alot of people out there got the wrong idea from this post.  The<BR>
point of "A Day of Peace" is to have a day where violence is not performed<BR>
in any way.  The idea is not that TV shows cause violence, but that by<BR>
watching and enjoying images of violence we are somehow celebrating it,<BR>
and it would be good if we did not do this for just one day.  Too many of<BR>
you had a kind of knee-jerk reaction where you reflexively hugged a<BR>
variety of constitutional amendments to your chests.  This has nothing to<BR>
do with that.  The "Day of Peace" movement is not anti-gun nor anti-free<BR>
speech.  It is anti-violence. <BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:16:39 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I think alot of people out there got the wrong idea from this post.  The<BR>
> point of "A Day of Peace" is to have a day where violence is not performed<BR>
> in any way.  The idea is not that TV shows cause violence, but that by<BR>
> watching and enjoying images of violence we are somehow celebrating it,<BR>
> and it would be good if we did not do this for just one day.  Too many of<BR>
> you had a kind of knee-jerk reaction where you reflexively hugged a<BR>
> variety of constitutional amendments to your chests.  This has nothing to<BR>
> do with that.  The "Day of Peace" movement is not anti-gun nor anti-free<BR>
> speech.  It is anti-violence. <BR>
> <BR>
I do not care to have my reaction characterized as "knee-jerk" when I have<BR>
thought these issues through long before this piece of internet spam made<BR>
its way into my box, Charles.<BR>
<BR>
Violence is a part of the human nature.  I believe that by censoring it<BR>
you drive it into the underground where it can only come out even worse.<BR>
I'm not willing to do that even for one day.  I'm tired of the notion that<BR>
we can improve ourselves by cutting off bits.  Violence is necessary, it<BR>
is what impels us to defend our loved ones and family and selves when<BR>
required.  I am not anti-violence.  I am against the misuse of violence,<BR>
but I will never become the sort of person that is so against violence<BR>
that they'd allow their spouse to be raped, for example, rather than<BR>
fight.  Violent movies, for the most part, celebrate heroism-- the person<BR>
who endures violence in order to defend or help others.<BR>
<BR>
And I think this is a well-intentioned, but ultimately very bad, idea.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:32:30 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
<BR>
>William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
>> I possess a wall-map version and the version of the known space map in the<BR>
>> Library Data book clearly showing the extent fo the Zhodani, Imperial,<BR>
>> Aslan-Tlakhu, Hive Confed., Solomani Confed, and the 2000 worlds (K'Kree).<BR>
>> So far, none of the CT alien modules have disagreed with said maps.<BR>
><BR>
>You mean something like the "KNOWN SPACE" maps that show the Solomani<BR>
>confederation being approximately half the size of the 3I, only part of the<BR>
>Hierate, and small bits of the 2000 Worlds and Hive Federation? Is this the<BR>
>same as the maps in the Imperial Encyclopedia?<BR>
<BR>
No. The Imperial Space maps in the encyclopedia are far smaller in scope,<BR>
being 7x7 sectors. The map I refer to is some 20x15 sectors...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:36:39 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Humor<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:  Two things occur to me:<BR>
><BR>
>1.  Do the various subraces of humaniti find the same kinds of things<BR>
>funny?  I don't mean "Do they find the same jokes funny?".  I wouldn't<BR>
>expect a Vilani to laugh at a Solomani joke about hidebound traditions,<BR>
>for instance.  However, like it or not, ethnic humor is deeply ingrained<BR>
>in the Terran psyche.  Do Zhodani tell "chaotic Solomani" jokes?  Are<BR>
>pratfalls a constant in human comedy?  Do Vilani make puns?<BR>
<BR>
even amonst terrans, different cultures find different things funny. Many<BR>
jokes can be crossed over culturally, but many more cannot. Certain jokes<BR>
and idioms are translatable, but not funny when translated, and not funny<BR>
to non-inculturated persons.<BR>
<BR>
>2.  Is humor (in whatever form) a universal concept among sentient<BR>
>species, or are there races in the OTU that simply don't find _anything_<BR>
>funny?  (I suspect that humor is an inevitable companion of sentience.<BR>
>After all, even the SDG chips had something that could be construed as a<BR>
>sense of humor [the Deo/Deyo segment in _Survival Margin_]....)<BR>
<BR>
Probably; after all, without humor, we'd probably be glowing now.<BR>
<BR>
>If humor _is_ inextricably linked to sentience, what kinds of humor<BR>
>appeal to what races in the OTU?<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:41:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Niven Books<BR>
<BR>
At 03:00 PM 11/1/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Hi all.  A little late on this, but I thought I'd note that Niven's latest<BR>
>book, "Destiny's Road", takes place in the same universe as "The Integral<BR>
>Trees", "The Smoke Ring" and "A World Out of Time".  DR is a pretty good<BR>
>book, too!  Not his best, but with Niven that still puts it way ahead of<BR>
>most of the crap out there.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, we don't know if Destiny's Road (or it's two bretheren stories<BR>
Legacy of Heorot and Beowulf's Children) are set in the State.  For one<BR>
thing, the colonists in LoH used cold sleep to get to Tau Ceti, with some<BR>
severe side effects, something that what's his name in AWooT didn't have to<BR>
deal with.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:10:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I think alot of people out there got the wrong idea from this post.<BR>
<BR>
If they did, it can't be blamed entirely on the audience. The piece itself<BR>
was written in the same "anonymous appeal" style that is all too popular<BR>
these days on the internet. It was written in a fashion that (almost<BR>
cleverly) hides its aims behind deliberately non-insulting "peace and love"<BR>
rhetoric.<BR>
<BR>
>The<BR>
>point of "A Day of Peace" is to have a day where violence is not performed<BR>
>in any way.  The idea is not that TV shows cause violence, but that by<BR>
>watching and enjoying images of violence we are somehow celebrating it,<BR>
>and it would be good if we did not do this for just one day.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you're right, but I read it differently. Upon reading it again, I'm<BR>
convinced that it's not my critical faculties that are at fault. The piece<BR>
is clearly an appeal to the audience to practice entertainment<BR>
self-censorship for a day, with the unspoken "what if" assumption that this<BR>
act would help to curb violence in general.<BR>
<BR>
To make things even more confusing, there is no yard stick by which to<BR>
measure what is meant by "violent content", which is interesting since what<BR>
does and what does not constitute "violent content" is still hotly debated.<BR>
What's worse is that the scenario outlined in the piece that Jason forwarded<BR>
doesn't take into account the possibility that certain books, television<BR>
programs and movies make use of "violent content" in hammering home a<BR>
message that is distinctly anti-violence.<BR>
<BR>
>Too many of<BR>
>you had a kind of knee-jerk reaction where you reflexively hugged a<BR>
>variety of constitutional amendments to your chests.  This has nothing to<BR>
>do with that.<BR>
<BR>
This has plenty to do with the First Amendment, since it advocates<BR>
"voluntary" censorship. Why would participation in this act have any<BR>
importance at all otherwise? A boycott of any sort is always intended to<BR>
send a message to those who profit from what is being boycotted. In effect,<BR>
this piece is saying that you should send a message to television networks<BR>
and movie studios that you will not tolerate "violent content" under any<BR>
circumstances. That's fine if you really believe it will help, but<BR>
apparently this message was passed on to a group that, for the most part,<BR>
doesn't.<BR>
<BR>
It has plenty to do with the Second Amendment since the only form of<BR>
violence that is explicitly mentioned in the text happens to be gun<BR>
violence. It's a subtle way of associating being anti-gun with being<BR>
anti-violence, regardless of what that term might actually mean.<BR>
<BR>
>The "Day of Peace" movement is not anti-gun nor anti-free<BR>
>speech.  It is anti-violence.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that "anti-violence" in today's American vocabulary means (if<BR>
you identify with the left) "anti-gun", or (if you identify with the right)<BR>
"anti-free speech".<BR>
<BR>
This piece leaves us with the burning questions of what constitutes<BR>
"violent-content" and exactly what end this piece hopes to attain by the<BR>
actions it advocates.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:10:58 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
At 03:06 PM 11/1/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I think alot of people out there got the wrong idea from this post.  The<BR>
>point of "A Day of Peace" is to have a day where violence is not performed<BR>
>in any way.  The idea is not that TV shows cause violence, but that by<BR>
>watching and enjoying images of violence we are somehow celebrating it,<BR>
>and it would be good if we did not do this for just one day.  Too many of<BR>
>you had a kind of knee-jerk reaction where you reflexively hugged a<BR>
>variety of constitutional amendments to your chests.  This has nothing to<BR>
>do with that.  The "Day of Peace" movement is not anti-gun nor anti-free<BR>
>speech.  It is anti-violence.<BR>
<BR>
Many believe that humans have an intrinsic need for an outlet for violent <BR>
emotions.  By releasing such emotions through violent but non-destructive <BR>
ways may it may be possible reduce the actual destructive violence.  One <BR>
interesting theory is that exposure to representations of violence (art, <BR>
music, movies, etc.) may be a sufficient outlet for these <BR>
emotions.  Following this theory, in order to limit violence, this "Day of <BR>
Peace" should encourage people to watch the most violent possible movies <BR>
instead of actually hurting other people.<BR>
<BR>
This is not meant to be a flame.  I am simply trying to point out that such <BR>
actions as eliminating violent movies may actually cause destructive <BR>
violence.  After all, the goal isn't to eliminate all violent <BR>
thoughts/deeds/emotions, it's to eliminate the destructive ones....<BR>
<BR>
For an amusing treatment of this theory, see Alan Dean Foster's "Quotzl".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:14:26 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
< de flickering ><BR>
<BR>
I agree.  If the call includes giving up watching tonight's football game<BR>
then forget it.<BR>
<BR>
< flickering ><BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
><BR>
>To make things even more confusing, there is no yard stick by which to<BR>
>measure what is meant by "violent content", which is interesting since what<BR>
>does and what does not constitute "violent content" is still hotly debated.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:19:15 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
<BR>
Which of the Library data books was this in? Also, where did you get the<BR>
wall size version??<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> >> I possess a wall-map version and the version of the known space map in the<BR>
> >> Library Data book clearly showing the extent fo the Zhodani, Imperial,<BR>
> >> Aslan-Tlakhu, Hive Confed., Solomani Confed, and the 2000 worlds (K'Kree).<BR>
> >> So far, none of the CT alien modules have disagreed with said maps.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >You mean something like the "KNOWN SPACE" maps that show the Solomani<BR>
> >confederation being approximately half the size of the 3I, only part of the<BR>
> >Hierate, and small bits of the 2000 Worlds and Hive Federation? Is this the<BR>
> >same as the maps in the Imperial Encyclopedia?<BR>
> <BR>
> No. The Imperial Space maps in the encyclopedia are far smaller in scope,<BR>
> being 7x7 sectors. The map I refer to is some 20x15 sectors...<BR>
> <BR>
> William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
> interface!"<BR>
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
> 533<BR>
> Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
> ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:29:27 -0000<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 9:21 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Imperial Known Space<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Which of the Library data books was this in? Also, where did you get the<BR>
>wall size version??<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The smaller one is in both of my Library Data volumes. The wall-sized one<BR>
was a promo item, I think, and Marc gave out a number of them some time ago<BR>
to interested parties.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:26:14 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Trade War<BR>
<BR>
Those interested in entering a squadron into the Trade War scenario,<BR>
please email me. Rules are at <BR>
http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/hgtradewar.htm<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:30:51 -0000<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
From: Eric Henry <ehenry@newberlin.org><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I agree.  If the call includes giving up watching tonight's football game<BR>
>then forget it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
>><BR>
>>To make things even more confusing, there is no yard stick by which to<BR>
>>measure what is meant by "violent content", which is interesting since<BR>
what<BR>
>>does and what does not constitute "violent content" is still hotly<BR>
debated.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It was me, and not Charles who stated this. I said this in response to<BR>
Charles's comments.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1290<BR>
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